An interview with Professor Richard Werner (who has worked on our proposals)

Written by Ben Curtis on . Posted in Economic Analysis, Theory, Understanding Money & Debt, Video

These three videos form a very interesting discussion, I would certainly recommend watching them. Professor Werner has experience advising the Central Bank of Japan, and is currently Director of Centre for Banking, Finance and Sustainable Development at the University of Southampton

 

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  • unthunk

    Endogenous theory of money creation is only one of many views surrounding money creation. I think the fact that there is no consensus surrounding money creation at a time when the majority of economic activity is tied to electronic systems and therefore should be measurable is the key to solving monetary problems. I realise your campaign is focused on endogenous theory of money creation and I commend you for bringing it to peoples attention but the counter argument that banks merely leverage their assets and government expands the money supply via spending is also convincing. Both lead to unconventional and often upsetting arguments – do banks create money out of thin air / does a government actually spend tax money?
    Also ‘Credit Theory of Money’ has been deleted from Wikipedia because it was created by a banned user and the deletion log is gone!

    • Graham Hodgson

      One of the principal sources of confusion over the mechanism of money creation, in my opinion, is the legal status conferred on bank deposits (at least, on current (or payment or transaction) accounts) and on advances as respectively liabilities and assets of the bank. It is an accounting fact that no other asset class is diminished when a bank advance is extended, as would be the case when a conventional asset is purchased

      • Graham Hodgson

        It is also an accounting fact that no other asset class increases when an advance is paid off, as would be the case when a conventional asset is sold (disposal of a loan book via securitisation -does- increase the bank’s cash assets, but that is not the same thing as loan repayment). Neither is the attrition of advances through loan repayments reflected in the profit and loss account, as would be the case with the depreciation or revaluation of other assets. The only attribute that advances share with conventional assets is that they generate a source of revenue. But so do staff, and so does the application of knowhow, and so does the administration of methods and procedures, yet none of these are capitalised as assets on the balance sheet.

        Advances resemble loans, but loan assets are acquired by non-bank lenders through the expenditure of money, the transfer of money owned by and in the possession of the lender to the borrower. Advances may look like a loan, but they don’t behave like a loan and they shouldn’t be classed as a loan.

        Similarly with current account deposits. Account holders acquire these normally by transfer from those of other account holders. But when an account holder receives an advance, augmenting their deposit, no other deposit is diminished. It is simply not true to say that banks lend out 90%, 95%, 99% or whatever, of the new deposits received by their customers. It doesn’t happen. Nothing leaves these accounts when advances are extended. The total balance on all accounts increases when an advance is made, by the amount of the advance. This isn’t a view: it’s an accounting fact.

        Now what -is- a view is the interpretation that what happens when an advance is made is “as if” the bank lends out a proportion of new deposits received, which is the view propogated by economics textbooks. But this is only a way of looking at things, a viewpoint. It is not an explanation of the mechanism by which the process actually happens. Similarly, to say that a bank leverages its capital is to apply a metaphor to describe the appearance of what is happening, not an explanation of how its happens. Because the creation of bank deposits through advances is effortless and costless, prudential managers and officious regulators have to devise restraints on the process, and because economists have failed to address the subject and develop theoretical groundings for such constraints, resort has to be made to rules of thumb. Two measurable quantities seemingly independent of the levels of advances have been adopted for this purpose: the levels of customer deposits (which are not, in fact independent) and the level of the bank’s capital, and these have been pressed into service to set rule-of-thumb constraints. Levels of deposits inform “fractional reserve” banking constraints, levels of capital inform “capital adequacy ratio” banking constraints. But these views of banking are directed at reigning in the process by which money is created, not explaining it.

  • http://identi.ca/group/monetaryreform Dai

    You would think in this day and age that the information on how the money in our system is created would be freely available. Surely there must some retired bankers from the BOE and private banks who are willing to spill the beans. If you think about it, how can George Osbourne or any Chancellor be credible when it comes to the economy when the creation of money is such a mystery. More important is how do we the people hold them to account if the creation of money and how the banking system works is such a mystery. Shouldn’t the creation of money and how the banking system works be taught to all secodary pupils as a matter of course.

  • http://goodworld.lightnet.co.uk Janos Abel

    Re Unthunk at http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/2011/05/an-interview-with-professor-richard-werner-who-has-worked-on-our-proposals/?replytocom=4929#comment-4929

    “Endogenous theory of money creation”
    Does this mean banks creating the money supply? if “yes”, is this really just a theory?
    “banks merely leverage their assets”
    What does this mean in plain English?
    Does it mean assets X billion, loans advanced 10X billion? In which case they created 9X billion new money and it is no different from the “endogenous” method
    “government expands the money supply via spending”
    This is only half a statement. Governments only expand the money supply if they spend credit money (i.e. new money) borrowed from the banks.

  • unthunk

    @Janos Abel
    “banks merely leverage their assets” – its to do with ability to pay… if you owe more than you have it doesn’t matter unless you can’t pay your bills. Banks make money by owing far more than they have but they make sure they can always pay. If they can’t pay they are insolvent.
    “government expands the money supply via spending” – I have heard conflicting views on this… if you consider a central banks main ability to be crediting an account without debiting another and debiting an account without crediting another i.e. expand / contract the money supply, and that government use this ability… then government doesn’t spend taxes! Government spends what it likes (expand money supply) then sells gilts to counter any inflationary effects (contracts money supply). Taxes go straight to paying yields on gilts.

  • Nic

    @Unthunk

    Banks make money by owing far more than they have.

    This is totally wrong.

    If a bank gets into a situation where it owes more than it has, it is insolvent and immediately has to cease trading otherwise the directors become personally liable for the debts.

    • Ben Dyson (Positive Money)

      I think Unthunk might be referring to the money that they actually have available at any time – they owe customers far more than they can actually pay out at any time.

      Of course in an accounting sense banks do need to have assets that exceed (or at least match) their liabilities.

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